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Old 1st January 2011, 04:12 PM   #16
chosen
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

So are you claiming that he never holds you hand, or puts his hand on your knee or that he didnt have your photo by his bed? Marriedforlife, you claim that he is like a brother. I have 2 brothers, and we dont touch each other like this. We hug when we say hello or good bye, but that is it, and they are REAL brothers and not just friends.

If he is affectionate with other women as well, that makes it worse. Whether the touching is sexual or not, doesnt matter(and if he does touch other women on the knee, it is sexual), it isnt appropriate for a married man to touch another women in this way unless she is his wife. Maybe your boundaries are much more lax than mine and my husbands, but he would never dream of touching another women in this way.

If I were you I would stay right away from this marriage, and maybe she will stop feeling hurt and being accused of jealousy.You are both married, so it may be sensible to keep the physical affection for your own spouses, where it belongs, so that there is no misunderstanding.

Last edited by chosen; 1st January 2011 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 1st January 2011, 04:40 PM   #17
marriedforlife
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

[/QUOTE]If I were you I would stay right away from this marriage, and maybe she will stop feeling hurt and being accused of jealousy.[/QUOTE]

If I had realized when I first met her that there was a problem, it wouldn't have gotten to this. It will just not be that way any more. (By the way, I do have a brother with whom I am affectionate and there is nothing sexual about it.)

Thank you for your prayers for her marriage as well as for mine.
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Old 1st January 2011, 04:54 PM   #18
Forever
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

If you want them both to be happy, then you can understand why perhaps it is critical that you stop all touching. JD has only been married to her husband for three years and does not "see" the level of your affection with her husband as healthy, but threatening. If you care about them as a couple, rather than just about how good you feel when Jim shows affection towards you, then you must do the Godly thing for JD too.

Calling you "Foxy", putting his hand on your knee, massaging your feet in the hot tub, ect. are things HUSBANDS do to their wifes, not someone else's, not even to their sisters.

You are a member of the opposite sex, probably attractive, and Jim is out of line when his wife expresses distress to him and he continues doing these things. If JD's imagination is going on overdrive at this point, it is because you and her husband are not respecting proper boundaries as married people. I believe JD. She would not come to a forum if there were nothing wrong, and she is within her marital rights to want these things stopped.

I believe these things should be taken to the Pastor, and you saying that your husband not wanting to talk about personal things to anyone does not play into fairness at this point.

JD has every right and responsibility to talk to whomever she needs to in order to bring these things to light so that she can have peace in her soul. Her perception of her husband and marriage is at stake now. I would think that you would want that for her? I think she should talk to YOUR husband about what she has been experiencing, get his take on it, and if that does not satisfy her, she should bring this to the attention of the Pastor.

Has it ever occured to you that perhaps the Lord wants Jim's behavior with other women curtailed? Perhaps other MEN have been distressed by his attention to their wives or girlfriends? Perhaps JD is the catalyst for the Lord drawing attention to a much needed area in Jim's life.

Does this sound reasonable to you Marriedforlife?

Last edited by Forever; 1st January 2011 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 1st January 2011, 05:06 PM   #19
Forever
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

I see that you have resolved to make sure these things do not happen again Marriedforlife. With that, also resolve to understand that MOST women would have felt exactly like JD does. Protect her.

A good question to ask...at WHAT point then, if all these things were so innocent, SHOULD a married woman/man become alarmed? See what I mean? WHEN should a man or woman start recognizing that something is amiss if not when the things Jim is doing are happening over a period of time? How would you feel if YOUR husband was doing these things to certain women...umm, especially attractive ones? This is what we see, I hope you understand.

Feel free to come to this forum if you need us too.

In Christ,
Forever

Last edited by Forever; 1st January 2011 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 1st January 2011, 05:32 PM   #20
chosen
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

If I were you I would stay right away from this marriage, and maybe she will stop feeling hurt and being accused of jealousy.[/QUOTE]

If I had realized when I first met her that there was a problem, it wouldn't have gotten to this. It will just not be that way any more. (By the way, I do have a brother with whom I am affectionate and there is nothing sexual about it.)

Thank you for your prayers for her marriage as well as for mine.[/QUOTE]



So does you brother put his hand on you knee, call you foxy, and massage your feet in the hot tub?????I have never seen a brother and sister act like that ever.
These are things for a married couple. Apparently JD'S husband sees these things as harmless flirting, but as I am sure you know there is no such thing as harmless flirting. It is very disrespectful for a spouse to flirt with another man/woman, especially if they are there seeing it. I am glad that you are going to stop this behaviour. I am totally amazed that you thought it was appropriate, but better late than never anyway.

Boundaries in marriage, as forever said, are vital. Also as forever says, maybe other men are unhappy with the way he touches their wives. (or maybe he doesnt do it when they are there?)and this maybe the time when he needs to learn what is and what isnt appropriate for a married man. All I can say is that if my pastor was bought into a situation such as this. he would have some strong words to say to all involved. In fact he was recently telling us of a situation where he noticed a youth worker from another church acting innapropriately with an older teenager. (Nothing specific, but it made him uncomfortable). He found out later that the man left his wife and 3 small children for this girl. He SO regretted that he didnt say something to someone at the time.

When I was in my mid teens, a married man from church who was in his 20's, put his hand on my knee, when we were in his car(he was giving me a lift home) and I felt SO uncomfortable and embarrased. I didnt know what to do, and never told anyone. I found out afterwards that he had a tendency to do things like that. I cant understand how any woman can think this is OK behaviour. I just KNEW, even at that age, that it was wrong.

If you both put all of your affection and focus onto your own spouses, then you will be safe, and JD will feel secure and not threatened . Just because you have known a person for a long time, that gives no excuse for innappropriate affection.

Last edited by chosen; 1st January 2011 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 1st January 2011, 07:45 PM   #21
marriedforlife
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

It would probably be helpful to both of us if she would talk to me. When I originally heard from her that something was amiss was through an email, maybe the day she first posted on here, then through this forum. She and I need to sit and talk and I really think we could resolve the issue. She will not talk wth me.
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Old 1st January 2011, 07:53 PM   #22
Forever
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Well, you can be sure that she is reading this forum. How about you being gracious to her and posting why a conversation between the two of you would help?

If I were her, I might feel like you would try to justify your behavior and would try to make me feel like it was all my imagination and that I were crazy. Im not accusing you of this...this is just what would be going through my head in her position. She is probably afraid, maybe even humiliated by this, especially since you denied her reality and NEEDS for you to acknowledge that her take on things is just as legitimate as you see yours to be.

Protect her. Your intentions toward her husband may seem innocent to you, being you are on the receiving end of her husbands affection, and it feels nice doesnt it? But she is not you, her postition in her marriage is being compromised, and her husband thinks flirting is okay. It isnt. Flirting is for single people, for those who want someone to know that they are in the line of sights for potential romance. Is this how you wanted to come across? No? But it IS what happened.

You are her sister in Christ. Protect her.

Last edited by Forever; 1st January 2011 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 1st January 2011, 09:04 PM   #23
chosen
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

You can resovle the issue.....by keeping away from her husband and not acting inappropriatly with him. I am not sure speaking to her will do anything when it can be so easily resoved by you staying away, admitting the wrong that you have done, and appologising to her for what has been going on.(you can do that by e-mail).
The fact that all here who have replied were all in such total agreement, says something surely. The fact that we all reacted with such shock, shows that what was happening was way out of line dont you think?
Hopefully the other women he is like this with, will see sense as well. Hopefully one or two of the husbands of these women will be man enough to stand up to him and call him on this. Or maybe even the pastor or one of the elders.Someone needs to.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 01:17 AM   #24
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

We finally did speak. I have apologized. I do still love her and wish them both the best. I will stay away unless I am with my husband. Please continue to pray for us both. He truly does love her and she has made him happy.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 01:37 AM   #25
Forever
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

This is WONDERFUL to hear! Thankyou so much for your humble response to our sister in Christ!

If you ever need us, we are here for you...hopefully for your comfort and edification also.

Forever
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Old 2nd January 2011, 05:30 AM   #26
chosen
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

marriedforlife
You have definately done the right thing by appologising, and you have shown her that it wasnt all in her mind and that she had a right to be jealous. I REALLY hope that her husband will also see this, and appologise to her as well, and also that any similar behaviour of his with other women will stop also. I also REALLY hope that he wont resent what she has done by getting help here and changing things.
God Bless
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Old 3rd January 2011, 11:46 AM   #27
Raymond
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Yes well done married for life to see this. It is a wonderful result not always achieved. We don't always know what we are doing is wrong and may do it in faith, but when more revelation comes we then have a responsibility. We are not only to avoid evil but even avoid the appearance of it and we musn't stumble the weaker brethren with our faith.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 05:54 PM   #28
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Thank you all so much! I love you all so much for what you have done to help me through this. God is GREAT!
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Old 3rd January 2011, 06:14 PM   #29
Raymond
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

God has certainly answered prayer here in an incredible way.

I know that hubby has to get the full message and hopefully he will after this.

God bless you JD and you too MFL.

Last edited by Raymond; 3rd January 2011 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 4th January 2011, 04:24 PM   #30
Jimsdarliing
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

[QUOTE=chosen;58679]JD
No you arent loosing your mind, in fact you have put up with thing that few would have. It may be an idea for you to write down some boundaries for his behaviour with her (and any other women)so that you have something to start with. A good book on this subject is called "Hedges" by Jerry B Jenkins. It is all about putting hedges round our marriage to protect it. I think you can get it on amazon.

He may not want to listen, as he is probably enjoying what he does, but if he refuses, it may be worth going to counselling together, or going to see the pastor together. He really needs to hear it from other people as well as you.
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